Curse

AuraofMana · Oct 26, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

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Rush? decent groups NEVER rush, they take their time and do things correctly.

This is farming, not PvE-get mission done crap.

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Dual SS should'nt carry rez, if the monk dies then find a new monk.

Shit happens.

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BR is not needed for dual UW, only poor quality monks require it.

If you are good at SSing, you would have lists of good quality monks. Only poor quality SS like you would find "poor quality monks".

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LOL at the expert who cant see when someones taking the piss, take your head out of wherever you've got it, you might see better

Made no sense at all, GJ.

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No that is true but I will still get that drop after the regen break so that arugement is pointless.

You take longer to farm thus gain less loot overall. Math definitely helps Mr. "I am too cool for school".

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Since when? I like going to FoW just to do the quests..omg shock!!

We are talking about the usage of BiP in FARMING. Get the arguments straight before you start typing.

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I don't rush, I take my time and do things correctly. Rushing is the main reason why mistakes happen.

Doing things efficiently > doing things correctly.
Speed and correctness is the key of farming.

Amity and Truth · Oct 26, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Well, you can use them basically everywhere.
But to be honest, a BiP Necromancer is a waste of a teamslot. Unless you've got a build that is capable of keeping it up on your entire team all the time - which however involves a complete skillbar dedicated to it and the character itself is highly fragile and ineffective. Plus your team doesn't need that much energy anyways now, does it?
On a sidenote though, BiP is one of those mediocre PuG Skills. It's a no brainer just like SS used to be. If you've got a BiP Necro on your team you just know what he will do. Thats one of the reasons they're wanted.

Malice Black · Oct 26, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

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This is farming, not PvE-get mission done crap.

Where in the OP thread does it state this thread is about farming? it doesn't..

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You take longer to farm thus gain less loot overall. Math definitely helps Mr.

I know how to make money, I made around 20mil in total over 15 months so don't lecture me on farming.

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"I am too cool for school".

I'm 23 years old, I'm too old for school.

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If you are good at SSing, you would have lists of good quality monks. Only poor quality SS like you would find "poor quality monks".

And you know my playing ability how? another lame personal attack. Anyways everyone comes across bad monks at some point, yes I had a list of monks but I did on the odd occasion PuG it just for a laugh.

You really should lower your opinion of yourself, I'm not impressed and never will be. BTW if you wish to talk about farming try the farming topic at the bottom of the main page

AuraofMana · Oct 27, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Graduate school is win.

BiP can spam healing just like Order Necro because he should have decent points into Healing Prayers.

As for BiP in farming, that's what we have been discussing - mostly around whether BiP is useful around The Deep.
And BTW, I wouldn't care if you were impressed or not. If I did, I would have agreed with you.

ZephyLynx · Oct 27, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Dude, AuraofMana, you need a chill pill and a maturity check. First of all, this is the general pve discusion forum for necros. The OP sait nothing about farming. FYI, there are some people that actually play the game for fun, not to sit there and grind for useless loot 24/7. If people really wanted to do that, they would play WoW or some other grind game. Farming is there to have fun; I do farm everyonce in a while. Collectors/Crafters FTW! You want to talk about farming skills, do so in the farming section of the forum.

As to BiP, its a nice skill to have in certain builds. Really only usefull in farming specific areas, such as the Elite missions if you are going to run a high energy team build (nuking for example). In questing and missions, I prefer to use Well of Blood/Blood Ritual. If your monks are asking for a BiP/BR constantly, then either the monk needs to learn energy management, your party is made of idiots, or a combination of both. BiP comes in real handy in tough situations, but you can prevent these situations from happening with a competent group. Like I said earlier, BiP is great in a team build that calls for it, but not useful as a stand alone skill in an unorganized team.

Priest Of Sin · Oct 27, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

BiPs are utilized in any dungeon-type area (High End PvE). This includes FOW, UW, Fire Island Chain missions, Urgoz Warren, ect. TIP: Cast Blood Renewal before you BiP, that way you can cast 3 bips in rapid succession (at the cost of most of your HP)

ShaneOfMach · Oct 27, 2006, 05:53 AM // 05:53

BiP necros don't just spam Blood is Power. They are support characters in keeping the party alive. They only need two essential skills: Blood Renewal and Blood is Power. The next 6 slots can be used for whatever you want.

HELSEN · Oct 27, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

So.

I prefer to use Well of Power + Blood Ritual everytime a BIP is asked (I never told them until we join the mission

).

Sometimes there is some whining in the start.
Until the first enemy drops and I set Well of Power in the fighting/blocking group.
Group will never asked again for BIP

+5 life regeneration and +2 energy regeneration at the blockers and the monks can mostly read there emails while this time

.

Blood ritual is then more then enough for a little engeryboost at the monks and at the end of fight there will WOP for all for an fast regeneration.

nebuchanezzar · Oct 27, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

BiP = Time
It can be used effectively anywhere but is often not "needed".
A BiP necro is a support character and the team should know this. Ele's should not bring Ether Prodigy for energy which frees up an elite(assuming they aren't already running Echo), Monks don't need to worry about E-management etc. You can allow other teammates to run skills that are too expensive. You remove the need to regen(except Exhaustion) thereby speeding up all aspects of the mission/game. Rushing is fine if you know what your doing. Waiting = wasted time.
To play a BiPer is a different mindset than damage dealing. Your job is to allow more efficient damage dealers to unload. Does it promote sloppy play? Often yes, but in PvE who cares. The only arguement against would be that you enjoy seeing yourself almost die and or like waiting around to regen energy/health. Does it lower team DPS? Only if your team does not utilize it properly. If you dont like playing support style necro then BiP is of no use.
BiP = Time

AuraofMana · Oct 30, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

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If people really wanted to do that, they would play WoW or some other grind game.

WoW isn't all grinding.

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The OP sait nothing about farming.

We were discussing BiP and its usage on farming. Reading helps.

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FYI, there are some people that actually play the game for fun, not to sit there and grind for useless loot 24/7.

Let's talk about useless crap. No one said anything about farming is all that is to the game. Again, reading helps.

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Farming is there to have fun

Or to make real life money for some people.

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If your monks are asking for a BiP/BR constantly, then either the monk needs to learn energy management, your party is made of idiots, or a combination of both.

Tell that to the monks and eles that need energy because the massive amount of monsters that are dealing massive damage with fast attack speed. Maybe you don't get it. BR = close range, time-consuming cast. BiP = Long range, instant cast. Energy management =/= Unlimited energy. You must be one of those idiots who ask your monk to keep everyone fat and healthy, and then blame it all on the monk when you die.

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but you can prevent these situations from happening with a competent group

Competent groups don't have unlimited energy.

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I prefer to use Well of Power + Blood Ritual everytime a BIP is asked (I never told them until we join the mission )

And then the 4 ele and 3 monks in the back gets energy shortage because they can't go melee range and BR is taking forever.

The whole point of BiP is to juice up your damage dealers and support your healers. An elementalist will always do more damage than a Necro.

LordLucifer · Oct 30, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

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Originally Posted by AuraofMana

WoW isn't all grinding.

We were discussing BiP and its usage on farming. Reading helps.

Let's talk about useless crap. No one said anything about farming is all that is to the game. Again, reading helps.

Or to make real life money for some people.

Tell that to the monks and eles that need energy because the massive amount of monsters that are dealing massive damage with fast attack speed. Maybe you don't get it. BR = close range, time-consuming cast. BiP = Long range, instant cast. Energy management =/= Unlimited energy. You must be one of those idiots who ask your monk to keep everyone fat and healthy, and then blame it all on the monk when you die.

Competent groups don't have unlimited energy.

And then the 4 ele and 3 monks in the back gets energy shortage because they can't go melee range and BR is taking forever.

The whole point of BiP is to juice up your damage dealers and support your healers. An elementalist will always do more damage than a Necro.

agree with many things here, but this is FAR from true....

AuraofMana · Oct 30, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

I meant if you count in the AOE damage as well. Obviously Blood Spiker deals more overall to a single target, but if you count in the AOE effect Ele has, then that's more. It is the AOE damage that counts in Elite Mission farming anyway.

LordLucifer · Oct 30, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

hmm 1 curses necro deals way more dmg than any kind of eles, counting with AoE dmg (ofc also thinking abt SS there, but not only)
good MMs also deal more dmg than eles (and provide multi targets)
unless you meant "The whole point of BiP is to juice up your damage dealers and support your healers. An elementalist will always do more damage than a BiP a Necro."

then i apologize

BaconSoda · Oct 30, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

My friends, why are we fighting over the usage of BiP? Its not that big of a skill, lets see who'll be the bigger man and let the kiddy play his way.

Now onto topic: BiP is used very strategically and invloves being a support character (which includes not doing much direct damage yourself). Personally, i veiw BiP more as energy-loss prevention than energy regainment, since regen kinda works better if you think about it that way(healing breeze is health-loss prevention, not health regainment). Of course this is my opinion. BiP also (in my opinion) is not nessesarily a staple in very poor PUG groups, it's more of an insurance policy in PUG groups that in case one monk does something stupid and leaves mid-Abadon's Mouth, Master Laotzu can keep the whole team running thanks to Necronis Rex's BiPs when they find that Optimus Caliph and Willa the Unpleasant have been put together......and we all know how bad that can be in PUG groups

......

Apart from The Deep and Urgoz's Warren, BiP doesn't really find it's way into farming. Occassionally someone will ask for it in FoW, or an UW group that is comprised of 8 people. If it is asked for, then the player asking for it must be thinking ahead into being able to pack some more damage (if not-monk), or some more healing/protection (if monk). BiP thusly should be encouraged, since thinking is our friend!

AuraofMana · Oct 31, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

The whole point of my arguments was that BiP is useful in Elite Missions, I guess only a few people got what I mean.
As for Curse Nec dealing more than a Nuking Ele, I have never seen it, but then again not a lot of people play Curse Nec (I want my SS back >< ).
Order of Undeath is ftw =D

LordLucifer · Oct 31, 2006, 07:45 AM // 07:45

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Originally Posted by AuraofMana

The whole point of my arguments was that BiP is useful in Elite Missions, I guess only a few people got what I mean.
As for Curse Nec dealing more than a Nuking Ele, I have never seen it, but then again not a lot of people play Curse Nec (I want my SS back >< ).
Order of Undeath is ftw =D

SS+A. echo alone deals more dmg than a whole elementalist skill bar 0_o put reckless haste and it outdamages by a ton, and you can add dessacrate enchants or other curses for even greater dmg if you want X_X not to mention you can make mobs miss a lot, degen, use wells, cause weakness, necros are at the same time extremelly powerful AND versatile. if theres a char ill never ever delete even if im left with 1 char slot it would be necro >.<

ZephyLynx · Oct 31, 2006, 09:41 AM // 09:41

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Tell that to the monks and eles that need energy because the massive amount of monsters that are dealing massive damage with fast attack speed. Maybe you don't get it. BR = close range, time-consuming cast. BiP = Long range, instant cast. Energy management =/= Unlimited energy. You must be one of those idiots who ask your monk to keep everyone fat and healthy, and then blame it all on the monk when you die.

...idiot I may be, but I have been playing a monk character for quite some while (both heal, prot as well as many other builds). I have a lvl 20 accended/"closer to the stars" of every character type (not including Nightfall ofc), done all the missions of the 2 first games, although I mainly stick to monk and ranger. As a monk (now over 5 mil xp), I used specific builds in farming, especially back in the days of sf farming. I have never need BiP to keep my team alive, assuming they were competent, although there has been many close calls, and several failures. If the pick up group you are in is not competent, find another one or ask for friends and/or alliance members. If you (as a monk) are finding yourself actually needing BiP/BR most of the time, then it is time to leave that group. It saves much more time.

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Competent groups don't have unlimited energy.

Competent groups don't need unlimited energy to be efficient and fast.

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And then the 4 ele and 3 monks in the back gets energy shortage because they can't go melee range and BR is taking forever.

The whole point of BiP is to juice up your damage dealers and support your healers. An elementalist will always do more damage than a Necro.

You seem to favor eles over other classes, which is fine. But if you need BiP just for that reason, one might consider the other 9 classes that can be used. Eles do large amount of AoE damage, rangers can spike/interupt, mesmers can be anti-any class, warriors can pack high dps (both spike and AoE) with out any energy problems, necros have power in curses (Mark of Pain, Barbs, SS) or death (MM, mm bombing). A single ele has the highest solo dps, but a well coordinated team with synergy can easily outdamage several nukers (which btw, I'm assuming you are talking all about fire damage, ignoring the other 75% of ele skills). My guild did a ranger spike team in sf a while back; every target we called died in seconds. Brohn could not get a single skill off before he died. We moved fast, no need for energy regen, recovery from exhastion, or heal up time.

Your monks should not all be healers. Add prot and condition/hex removal. Ageis combined with a ward or two can easily mitigate damage and is more effective than healers with BiP. Your tank should easily hold off most dmg with armor increasing skills (Dolyak Sig, Defy Pain, Watch Yourself, etc...) with a little help from healing seed or healing hands, giving the rest of your team to kill fast, assuming you are going with a tank.

I have nothing against BiP. It is indeed worthy of its elite status. I just can't seem to find a real use for it other than the health/energy degen rooms in the elite missions (which it is a must to bring that skill). It's a nice every once in a while, but its not all important to use. If you use a team build that needs it, it is great. But in general its not usefull to a well organized team (unless ofc, you are running a specific build).

AuraofMana · Oct 31, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

I have never played a Monk ever.. I haven't healed any human ever in my GW time XD
Seems like to me every time I play BiP in Elite Missions, everyone is screaming on top of his or her lungs about BiP =/

Necromancer is actually my favorite class, and I have never found Ele fun =/
Although I think Ele is better for Elite Missions due to the fact that everyone wants 3-4 Echo Nuker for elite mishs instead of SS nec.

I agree, BiP is really crap outside of Elite Missions, although I put it on my Necro hero so he can give me infinite energy =)

Malice Black · Nov 01, 2006, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Don't need BiP on hero either really, I tend to run high soul reaping with my blood spike build (currently at 9, might add a sup rune) and have mesmer as secondry for e-managment purposes, if I get low I use E-tap and/or that soul reaping signet (can't remember the name) that generally adds 10-15 energy.

Necro is the only class I feel comfatable playing, could never get the hang of melee classes.

AuraofMana · Nov 01, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

I tend to get lazy as I get more minions so I just let the monks heal them and spam Botm every once in a while. Then during the fight I massively spam Botm and Heal Area because the Monks keep me alive =D